This week The Men’s List reached out to two men, Australian Fitness Trainer and Social Influencer and Nathan McCallum and Toronto therapist, author, and Men’s List Member David Jurasek to ask each of them three questions about men and relationships. Each man brings a unique perspective to the discussion on what is the most influential work a man can do in his life – develop and growing intimate relationships.
TML: “Nathan, What strength do yo think men have that they under-utilize in relationships?”
NM: “Emotional support. The capacity to listen. Though I don’t think that is gender related…just something we should be more aware of.”
TML: “What do you know now about making relationships work that your 22yr old self had no clue about?”
NM: “Patience and understanding that everyone deals with issues in their own way. And sometimes it takes stepping back to see that.”
TML: “Which is better marriage or co-habitation – which is a better challenge?”
NM: “I’m not married, but when you meet someone that is right for you, living together should make life more simple.”
Nathan McCallum @MilestoneStrength (Instagram) www.isnathan.com
TML: David, there’s a discussion happening right now about which is better, marriage or to co-habitate and much of the dialogue is about convenience or risk – I’m wondering if you see either of these ‘structures’ being healthier for relationship intimacy?
DJ: My short answer is no. To each their own. Every couple has its own unique dance of struggles and strengths, intimacy and conflict, magic and misunderstanding. It’s like asking is it better to have kids or not? Pros and cons to both and more importantly what do each of the members of the relationship truly want and are willing to live into if it is chosen? There are also far more important factors to the health of a partnership, for example like how well they navigate conflicts, do they have the skills to weather hurt and disappointment and heal and grow together or not? Do they have good daily habits that allow love to blossom and deepen over time or do they fall into patterns of avoidance, (like many couples do), which leads to the strength of the bond slowly corroding over time?
Given all of that, I would also qualify that commitment is the key ingredient perhaps implied in the question. You can have a couple who are unmarried and travel renewing vows yearly and they can be more mutually commitment to their relationship than another couple is married, “in it for life” but on auto pilot and slowly drifting apart. As we all know, true commitment is not about stating vows once upon a time nor about grand gestures. It’s about really getting to know the unfolding mystery that is your partner over time, daily tending to the relationship, and about the all hands on deck courage and vulnerability it can take at times to evolve and grow together through major life changes.
TML: David, If you’ve ever participated in a men’s forum on Facebook you’ll know that there are guys sharing every day about the problems and challenges in their relationships. Are men coming into relationships missing some of the essential elements for making a relationship work?
DJ: It’s been truly heartbreaking to follow some of the posts and comment threads. First, I see something deeply concerning and symptomatic of what you suggest. Many men who are often in deep pain are oversharing about their intimate relationships on social media. They are sharing personal details about their families that have no place on Facebook or any social media (that has no privacy protection). They’re asking for advice from other men (often strangers in a group of thousands) in moments of desperation. Like just the other day a dad is venting about his ex and sharing about a recent relationship imploding asking about what to do about both! Then dozens of men — many well intentioned — start piping in encouraging him to do what may have worked for them. Sometimes it’s touching to read the empathy and resonance between men. Other times scary to see the kind of reactionary and dangerous advice that gets heaped on someone who is not seeming to be in a place to best discern or take full responsibility for their situation. It pisses me off actually and I jump in to try and moderate as well as to encourage the initial man who posted to seek private and professional counsel.
All that said, this speaks to several layers of unmet need I see present in many men’s lives which contribute to or diminish the health of our relationships.
First, it takes a village to help a couple to be healthy and thrive. And men particularly need a community of other men that is authentic, empowering and confidential. In absence of this, men go and find places where other men don’t listen, energy is wasted on complaining about partners, other men try to fix them, and the dirty laundry in our personal lives is exposed to public eyes.
Second, many men lack real friendships, period. Due to our culture of consuming, overworking and the natural inertia and isolation of relationships, many men become more anxious and depressed than if they simply had more friends they could hang out with outside of their relationships. That’s why women fare better on average – they know how to keep friendships alive. We often lack the skills as men to do so an/or we just don’t prioritize it, thinking it is selfish or taking away from our relationships and family life.
Third, it is the actual SKILLS! Love itself is an art form, and I think of it as a martial art, that is dynamic and very risky. We can and do get wounded and hurt in relationships. For us to not give up, run away and resign ourselves to become lone wolves (who die younger and are more anxious and depressed than men who are connected) we need to learn how to fight better, lick our wounds and heal afterwards to not just recover but grow stronger and more courageous and generous from the ways we clash at times. If we don’t do so, it is certain the fall out will be resentment and hurt that builds up to the point of one or both partners throwing in the towel. My marriage and my parenting and sometimes even my friendships are a dojo which kicks my ass often. I see that as a good thing as it means I am always learning, growing my relationship muscles and there is no end point — that passion to grow in our capacity to love and be loved and the confidence to do so comes only from discovering that when we failed in the past it was not due to our being not good enough but rather to us being unprepared and unskilled. We did not learn this in school (as it should be taught there from day one). Many of us often learned patterns from our parents and adults on how to have sucky relationships. So, as adult men, we need to seek out and find (and it is out there – the science to back it up too) on what does it take to make relationships actually workable and sustainable. And then as we get competence in the basics, over time we can refine and become really graceful and even masterful. But lets be real, there will always be something that throws us off and makes us go “holy shit I have a lot to learn still!” That is what it means to really be in a relationship where two people are growing and embracing life together. It is not a journey for the faint of heart so let’s stop jumping ship when the seas get too rough but instead lets learn the skills and develop the sea legs to sail through turbulent waters!
TML: In a time where gender and gender identification are being revolutionized – what does 21st century masculinity mean and what, David, does it mean to be a man now?
DJ: Wow. This question is just… impossible to answer authentically. Who am I to speak for all men or something so complex and ultimately undefinable as ‘masculinity’. I will say for myself being a man, that is being “me, David… one man amongst billions alive at this moment” I will say that there are some values I hold sacred and worth sacrificing temptations, rewards and even suffering for in order to be in alignment with. The first are authenticity and integrity. I was not able to “find myself” until I got real with myself and people who mattered. Once I did, I discovered how complex and multi-dimensional we all are. And so integrity was essential for me to bring the parts into a whole, starting with being impeccable with my word and keeping the promises I make or re-stating or re-negotiating them openly. Third, I would say courage and compassion are keys for me in being a man worth his salt in the world. Courage is needed daily to keep growing. When I don’t grow I stagnate. As Carl Jung would say…. “What was true in the morning of our lives becomes a lie in the afternoon of our lives.” We are all either evolving or grasping to a way that no longer works so well. Courage is needed to live truly. And Compassion is the antidote to being nice. It is a fierce and powerful recognition of what is more fully true. Compassion liberates us from the past, from the distortions of fear, shame, guilt and anger… It opens the door to standing on the firm ground of the present moment and letting go of trying to fix or change others, allowing change to come of its own accord. These four values I struggle to embody everyday, but it is a worthy struggle which defines me as a man.
